FIT and waypointsFORUMS HOME SEARCH FORUMS

Strange. Sometimes I get a gray turn symbol, like disabled, when I add turn points before I have set one. If you go in to the turn point, do you see a gray turn symbol? If so, can you try to explicitly disable it? Just choose the center 'none' turn point.

I'll post up the gpx and fit file so you can see.

Ok, think I've worked it out.  With the attached (PAR = plotaroute.com):

1. PAR - Fenix 3 - Summary.csv - plotting of all the waypoints across the different files (see notes below)
2. PAR Map.png - Screenshot of the route from PAR with the directional waypoints marked manually together with the POI waypoints I'd expect to see in the FIT file
3. Test_Route_From_Home DIR.gpx - Export from PAR with waypoints as directions
4. Test_Route_From_Home POI.gpx - Export from PAR with waypoints as POIs
5. Test_Route_From_Home.csv - FIT SDK conversion of the below FIT file to CSV
6. Test_Route_From_Home.fit - Export from PAR as FIT

So it looks like PAR doesn't add coursepoints to the FIT file for POI waypoints and only adds directions, ultimately I'm looking for a FIT file that mirrors the Test_Route_From_Home POI.gpx file.

PAR - Fenix 3 - Summary.csv notes:

• WP name - The name of the WP as it appears in the source
• Source - Where I found the details on that specific WP.  PAR Web - the route on plotaroute.com, the others refer to the files above.
• Also in - Where that WP also appears in other sources
• Lat/Long (Dec Deg) - the Lat/Long in decimal degrees
• Lat/Long (Semi Circ) - the Lat/Long in semi-circles (as they appear in the FIT file) 

I think if I understand correctly Callum, you'd like the downloaded course file to contain coursepoints for any labels and symbols you've added directly to the map, as well as those atatched to the route via the directions. We don't currently include these in TCX and FIT course files, as these aren't part of the route, so could hinder navigation. Course files don't really support waypoints like this, in the same that GPX files do. If you want to include a waypoint of some sort in TCX to FIT files that you download, you would need to add this to the list of directions, so that it gets added as a coursepoint at the correct place along the route.

John

Hi John, kind of.  The scenario is this...I do hiking and ultra-running so am usually reading a map or running paths I can match to the breadcrumb trail on my Fenix.  In these conditions I don't find directions useful as it's rarely "turn left here" or "bear left here".  There are however, in races/events/challenges, checkpoints along the course where I know I'm going to be able to re-fuel, or summits that I know I need to reach, etc.  In these cases I find it really useful to know how far the next "POI" checkpoint/summit/etc is, rather than knowing it's going to be 1km until I turn left; I know the latter because I can see the breadcrumb on my watch and can see that on my map.

So in summary I need a FIT file that only gives me what I put on the route via PAR....a route and POI waypoints.  Not directions.

In FIT spec language I want the course-points to reflect the POI waypoints and the records to reflect the route.

In fact the FIT spec example (in the SDK) for a course-file shows exactly this, a route (records) with laps (laps) and POI waypoints (course_points) for halfway, start, finish.  It does not mention directions.

Does that make sense?

Also, I ommitted, in races these checkpoints have cut-off times where if I arrive after that time I'm classed as DNF - did not finish.  Having these checkpoints as course-points means my Garmin gives me estimated time to arrival at each one.

Maybe I'm wrong...

I think the main issue here is that directions are added on the map along the route with a symbol that is supported in fit, but anyway the result in the file is a turn symbol.

In my tests I saw that if a turn point has both a direction and a symbol, then the direction is saved to file. Because the direction is behind the other symbol on the map it can be difficult to seewhen there is a combination of the two.

One solution to simplify would be to do it the other way around. Show symbol, not turn, if both are present.

I've seen that sometimes when I add a turn point and automatically get a gray turn symbol, like disabled, and then add a poi symbol, the turn symbol is acitvated when saving the turn point. It's likel intermittent and I can't  find a way to constantly reproduce it...

Hi Peter, I checked the long and lat and the directions match none of my waypoints, so it's not a symbol issue.  The issue is that the FIT file doesn't contain POI points but does contain directions.  I want the former but not the latter.

If you want the FIT file to contain coursepoints for POI's but not directions, you can do this by deleting any directions from the route and adding any POI's you want to the directions list instead (rather than adding them as annotations on the map).

John 

Brill thanks John, will do.

Just out of interest why are POI course_points not supported?  While adding them as directions will work, it seems like a workaround.

When you say that you have waypoints that don't match any of your waypoints in direction list in plotaroute, that made me thinking about how you tranfer the route to watch.

Do you transfer your route via Garmin Connect?

Garmin Connect delete all course points done externally and create new direction course points during transfer to watch.

Hi Peter, I transfer directly to the watch...I've been burned by connect and basecamp and try and stay well clear.  I think I get it now, plotaroute only transfers directions over as course-points and not POI waypoints, while that kind of makes sense as someone could put a POI waypoint somewhere off course and it wouldn't make sense to display distance to it.  P.S. I wouldn't do that in my case.

Now I get the mappings and have found the directions in plotaroute and how they map to my watch, I know what I have to tinker with to get it to work.

At some point I may end up writing an app to take GPX files with POI waypoints and convert them to FIT files in the format I need.

Thanks John and Peter for your insights and help with this.

Yes, that's right Callum, we don't create coursepoints for any labels or symbols you add directly to the map (rather than to the route), as these are 'off-route' and so would cause confusion when it comes to navigation of the route.

John

Hi All - Resurrecting this thread. I've followed these instructions by creating a route and deleting all of the directions and then adding in my own course points and making sure the turn arrows are turned off. Is this part of the step correct?

When I then manually transfer the FIT to my Fenix 6 I lose all of my Coursepoints and I end up getting a TBT. I'm wondering if I'm missing a step somewhere along the way as it seems like this all should be relatively straightforward.  

As per Peter's comment below, it's possible that Garmin Connect may be substituting your coursepoints with its own. We definitely include coursepoints in FIT files we create for any labels or symbols that you added in the directions panel.  This is probably question for Garmin support but other Fenix users on here may be able to offer advice.

Aaron, the first step is correct.

What do you mean by 'manually transfer'? You need to copy the fit file to newfiles folder on watch wired or use gimporter ciq widget (Android only) wirelessly to put the file on watch.

If you use the Garmin sync here on-site or import the route to Garmin connect, then Garmin will create tbt for you.

Also, I can add that it's only a couple of symbols that correspond to Garmin symbols. Alla other symbols give a default one.

It would be great if symbols compatible with Garmin could be marked in some way here on the site when selecting in list.

Hi Peter, 

Thanks for the response. 

By manually I meant that I download the FIT file from plotaroute and then transfer it over to the watch directly into NewFiles. I don't go through Garmin Connect. 

One thing I didn't try was disabling TBT within the Hiking Activity on my Garmin once I started the course. I'm not sure if that should affect anything. I was on the phone with Garmin support and you can't turn TBT off until you open the course on the watch. 

I'll try again in the coming days and see if I get a different result. Are there any other little tweaks that are easy to overlook that I might be missing? Either on plotaroute or on the Garmin.

Very strange answer from Garmin.
"One thing I didn't try was disabling TBT within the Hiking Activity on my Garmin once I started the course. I'm not sure if that should affect anything. I was on the phone with Garmin support and you can't turn TBT off until you open the course on the watch."
Turning off TBT is a global setting (Settings-> Navigation-> Alerts-> Turn points = on/off) and it's available all the time. I wonder what setting they refer to.

I've not tested, but I think you lose all course points with the above setting, both TBT and other course points that you have created in Plotaroute Direction List.

Quick todo in Plotaroute:

• Create your route
• Open direction list
• Use Manage button and select and delete all
• Use Add button to add other course points to direction list
• Open Download dialogue
• File type=GPS, File format=FIT, Route name='put in a name', Directions=15 m shift back, Turn warnings=0m-> Download

On watch:

• Be sure that other courses/files with the same 'Route name' from above are deleted from watch in 'Courses'-folder. Maybe for this test delete all in 'Courses'-folder. It could be that you have old courses in watch with the same Route name, but different File name. Watch will only show one of the routes/courses.
• Put the file in 'NewFiles'-folder
• You need to have the activity that you use, set to 'Follow course'-mode, not 'Use Map'-mode. Hike settings-> Routing-> Courses = 'Follow Course'.
• All other defaults
• Go!